Twin Sims... The Build

[simracingfanatic]

In these, I did find your comments and others on the Nobsound equipment. Even if I could get the old receivers to distribute signals... why would I? The compact, newer options that includes built in sound cards are not expensive at all and take up about 10% of the space, can be mounted nearly anywhere, and weigh only a fraction of what those receivers do. I may use the receivers for sound initially if I don't have a better solution in place by then but don't expect them to last long even in that manner.
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This is the internet, so there will be no consensus...LOL but what EFFECTS should those just entering the rabbit hole of tactile be looking at first to wet their whistle. EFFECTs, not hardware.

I understand the discussion of "personal preference" can and will slip into the answers but try to take that out of the equation. What makes effects make the biggest impact on your racing sim from the start and make the biggest impact on emersion AND feedback for those starting out?

If you brought someone else without any sim experience, what 1, 2 or 3 effects would be the first you would point out to those individuals or would they point out to you after a few laps. "You can really feel the ____"

Tire slip? RPM? Anti, lock? Gear shift? Bumps? Other?

I have the Nobsound amplifiers with the built-in soundcards. I didn't like their soundcards and purchased additional dedicated USB soundcards by Sabrent. I can't remember too clearly why i did this (it was a few years ago), but I think it had something to do with Windows occasionally reassigning them and constantly having to reenter my effects settings into SimHub.

Here's a link to the Sabrent USB soundcards. They're good at their job.

USB External Stereo 3D Sound Adapter | Black

Connectors: USB Type-A, Stereo output jack, Mono microphone-input jack. Reverse Compliant with USB Audio Device Class Specification 1.0 Driverless for Windows 98SE/ME/2000/XP/Server 2003/Vista/7/8/Linux/Mac OSX. USB bus-powered, no external power required.

sabrent.com

As for effects, I've only mapped "Wheel slip" and "Brake lock". It's a simple setup that uses simple equipment. Both effects output the same frequency (70Hz, as recommended by Mr. Latte for realistic tire slip) and it's easy to discern what's happening while noting my inputs. If my fronts are vibrating while braking, it's wheel lock; if they're vibrating at corner entry, but I'm not on the brakes - it's understeer.

With this setup, I feel I've unlocked another dimension that allows me to drive really well. It has allowed me to be a very competitive sim racer.

I haven't tried any complex tactile setups, hardware- or effect-wise, but I'm plenty pleased with this. I used to have some road bumps and road texture effects, but it sort of muddied my senses and I found I drove much faster with those disabled.


Also, if you haven't already, I recommend you download SimHub now and play around with it. Get a feel for how it works, so you can hit the ground running when your hardware arrives. It's an EXCELLENT piece of software. I'd like to even encourage you to make a donation and unlock the full version. I think it is well worth it.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I absolutely concurre on the
"wheel slip effect as ASS FB and Foot FB" advice it really helps to "feel the car" advice.
But it takes some getting used (recalibrating the body sensors what the vibrations mean), so I´m not sure how it would work for people who don´t use the Sim everyday.

Everybody who drives a ICE car should be used to engine vibrations, so that´s a level of information that should not distract from the driving. It could also be implemented easily with one or two shakers glued to the seat.

On the "download Simhub and play around" thing:

absolutely not a good idea, how can you determin what the settings do when you don´t have the hardware to "feel the change"??
Also not on the agenda until the rigs are build, the wheels and pedals dialed in and the seats soaked with sweat at least once!!

And, yes, I use it every day and of course I made the donation.
It drives my shakers, DDU, Leaderboard screen and the LED flags.
(Don´t even think about it until your rigs are running)

 

[DrewRPh]

rives my shakers, DDU, Leaderboard screen and the LED flags.

Sweet... It DOES run leaderboard. Wondering if I was going to need a separate solution for that.

I am waiting on reply from ASR racing to see what type of solution I can come up with similar to Lounge Control by VRL (Virtual Racing Lounge) as they are now partnering with each other.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Sweet... It DOES run leaderboard. Wondering if I was going to need a separate solution for that.

No, you can just run Simhub on one of the PC´s and connect the TV with a HDMI. (DP´s for the monitors)

Doesn´t matter that the TV does not have high framerate, Simhub does a maximum of 60FPS ( which my leaderboard screen has) and that does not effect the tripples.

 

[DrewRPh]

No, you can just run Simhub on one of the PC´s and connect the TV with a HDMI. (DP´s for the monitors)

Good. I am hoping to feed the leader board into the 55" screen on the wall that is just above where the rigs will be parked (couch and treadmill will be gone).

 

[DrewRPh]

First Return...

Don't even have everything on site and already something is going back.

Seat: Corbeau FX1 (standard width) is on site. Plan was to have one standard and one wide. After receiving the standard I ordered the wide but it is on back order from Corbeau until at least the end of the month.

Summit racing also sells Corbeau seats but the only have the wide in a pack of 2. Singles are out of stock as well.

As it turns out, I think I really want two wide seats anyway and the standard is a bit snug on me anyway and I have some "slightly" larger friends as well. Think the pair of Wide will be a better "fit" for my overall goal so back goes the standard and ordered is a pair of Wides from Summit Racing! Could be her as early as Wednesday!!!

Return is costing me about $60 in shipping but Summit racing had a discount code worth $30 so I will call it a win.

If I end up testing tactile side to side in the future, the idential seats will eliminate a variable.

 

[DrewRPh]

Still trying to find a source for Lounge Control by Virtual Racing lounge. Looking for a solution to tie these two rigs together.

ASR's response was,
-----
Ah I see what you mean, that system was bought. We do not sell it, we simply bought and use it from another company. https://www.homeofsimracing.com/ This is the link where you can get everything from them.
Hope this helps
-----
I have been to this site but half of it appears in a foreign language and haven't been able to figure out how to reach out to them yet... LOL

At one point I saw a sim racing supplier say they were partnering with VRL but struggling to find it at the time....

Edit: Simucube was the partner I previously read. I will have to look for guidance from them.

 

[simracingfanatic]

On the "download Simhub and play around" thing:

absolutely not a good idea, how can you determin what the settings do when you don´t have the hardware to "feel the change"??
Also not on the agenda until the rigs are build, the wheels and pedals dialed in and the seats soaked with sweat at least once!!

there's plenty of other things in SimHub, besides bass shakers, to familiarize yourself with. Last time I tried making a donation, the code took awhile to arrive. You could even output some frequencies into regular speakers, just to get an idea of how to adjust things. Besides, it sounds like he's playing the waiting game for his deliveries. If anything, now is the best time to get a hands-on preview, instead of scrambling for documentation when he'd much rather be racing.

 

[RasmusP]

Good. I am hoping to feed the leader board into the 55" screen on the wall that is just above where the rigs will be parked (couch and treadmill will be gone).


View attachment 743398

Just additional information:
Your plan is 3 Screens per rig + 1x TV, right?
Because 5 screens don't really work with a single GPU, even if you have 3x DP + 2x HDMI ports.
All the manuals state that you can only use 4 ports at the same time.

You can use the iGPUs in the CPUs though for a 5th screen or put a super cheap gpu in the second pci-e slot, if your motherboard has one.
A teammate is using a 4070 ti + gtx 960.

But triples + 1 work fine


About SimHub:
Playing around with it while waiting sounds absolutely fine to me.
Just don't try to really setup the tactile stuff for now or waste too much time with it.
But you can for sure choose a leaderboard etc right now

 

[DrewRPh]

Just additional information:
Your plan is 3 Screens per rig + 1x TV, right?

Correct. 3 + 1

 

[Mr Latte]

I have the Nobsound amplifiers with the built-in soundcards. I didn't like their soundcards and purchased additional dedicated USB soundcards by Sabrent. I can't remember too clearly why i did this (it was a few years ago), but I think it had something to do with Windows occasionally reassigning them and constantly having to reenter my effects settings into SimHub.

Here's a link to the Sabrent USB soundcards. They're good at their job.

USB External Stereo 3D Sound Adapter | Black

Connectors: USB Type-A, Stereo output jack, Mono microphone-input jack. Reverse Compliant with USB Audio Device Class Specification 1.0 Driverless for Windows 98SE/ME/2000/XP/Server 2003/Vista/7/8/Linux/Mac OSX. USB bus-powered, no external power required.

sabrent.com

As for effects, I've only mapped "Wheel slip" and "Brake lock". It's a simple setup that uses simple equipment. Both effects output the same frequency (70Hz, as recommended by Mr. Latte for realistic tire slip) and it's easy to discern what's happening while noting my inputs. If my fronts are vibrating while braking, it's wheel lock; if they're vibrating at corner entry, but I'm not on the brakes - it's understeer.

With this setup, I feel I've unlocked another dimension that allows me to drive really well. It has allowed me to be a very competitive sim racer.

I haven't tried any complex tactile setups, hardware- or effect-wise, but I'm plenty pleased with this. I used to have some road bumps and road texture effects, but it sort of muddied my senses and I found I drove much faster with those disabled.


Also, if you haven't already, I recommend you download SimHub now and play around with it. Get a feel for how it works, so you can hit the ground running when your hardware arrives. It's an EXCELLENT piece of software. I'd like to even encourage you to make a donation and unlock the full version. I think it is well worth it.

For Simhub, regards soundcards, the easiest solution is to just use a dedicated 7.1 USB soundcard
This means for upto 8x channels you only have to deal with and configure one card for those 8x channels/units within the "Sound Output" screen that Simhub uses. The one I recommend performs almost as good as the much more expensive Soundblaster X3 model yet is easily available on Amazon and is probably cheaper than a lunch/coffee for two.

While it is possible, yes someone can use 2x 3x 4x etc stereo soundcards or indeed multiple stereo amps with inbuilt soundcards. This becomes messier or more hassle. You then have to go into individual or multiple screens to route/map or activate effects for each soundcard.
Now do people want to be able to control, lets say 8 units from a single screen or have to go into 4x different screens because they have multiple 2 channel soundcards/amps detected in Simhub?

Not all cards are equal:
I have shown however that we can see differences in the output levels with various soundcards, also the bass roll-off can be better/worse depending on what is being used. Even some cases of multi-channel soundcards where they apply some form of restriction, so that CEN or SUR channels may not be able to properly deliver the lowest bass, which is what we do not want for Simhub.

It is possible to recommend other amps too but again my recommendation is to apply the tactile to only one rig to start. Find the basis of components and installation that suits the seat or rig and users preferences. Then from that decide to take it further or add additional fire-power to that build. Then either apply a basic incorporation of tactile to the 2nd rig or fully deck it out the same....

I will say this, buying Dayton BST1 / Pucks or other budget transducer or exciter units, which many, many people have and use.... The arrival of the BDS exciter this year, just brings extra potential with tactile immersion, regards how good/better effects can now be realised. Simply because of it's unique dynamic range, being wider/greater than what most other commonly used/installed budget transducer units can not quite deliver.

This is why I am currently working on building specific effects for it with the different approach I use. Testing with others has already commenced, who are going to be helping to configure the effects. A future thread for discussions and this work will come in the near future...

 

[DrewRPh]

OMG Love this:

POST

Especially the very last line.

so no panic - its just tactile
Peter

Literally had me LOL

What I am learning is there is a tremendous amount of info on this forum that has been tested, documented... and yes, "Argued" regarding tactile and I am probably selfishly wasting the time of those responding to my thread regarding tactile.

I will say it so others don't need too.. "Hey dumb xxx! Get your rigs running before diving into tactile!". Well, others have said it, just nicer... LOL

No, maybe the one-stop "tactile reference" does not (yet) exist but man, there is a TON of info on here and I appreciate everyone that has added to the content.

Yes, still reading the long-standing tactile thread and looking forward to move onto the 23/24 update.

I will try to focus my thread to get my build(s) up and running before switching over to tactile, but I won't promise not to quote a few lines as I continue my reading (especially things like the one-liner above). LOL

 

[DrewRPh]

It is possible to recommend other amps too but again my recommendation is to apply the tactile to only one rig to start. Find the basis of components and installation that suits the seat or rig and users preferences. Then from that decide to take it further or add additional fire-power to that build. Then either apply a basic incorporation of tactile to the 2nd rig or fully deck it out the same....

Excellent point. Thank-you!

When it comes time for tactile, the era of buying 2 of everything from the start will be over.

 

[DrewRPh]

Whoot! Whoot!

Hello Andrew

We are glad to inform you that your order has been shipped.

Please find your delivery order attached for more details.

Thank you,

 

[Peter Winkler]

dear @DrewRPh

my honest respect to your documentation work
sharing details is a huge work and i love to read such rig documentations

Cheers - Peter

 

[RasmusP]

Couldn't agree more, especially since you keep it decently structured and on-point without just putting out huge wall-of-texts that are really hard to read

 

[Mr Latte]

Excellent point. Thank-you!

When it comes time for tactile, the era of buying 2 of everything from the start will be over.

Many paths or ways to go with it, many levels it can be experienced...

Even those who have what is the most basic forms of tactile, if it is decently configured, often they will say how it greatly adds "new life" to the immersion and entertainment.

It can become a journey in itself and is very much still a d.i.y space.
Most, may be content with basics, others expect a bit more, then a few that seek to push the boundaries or find new possibilities with it.

So really unlike other areas or elements of a sim rig. We can come at it from different perspectives or incorporate different approaches and this includes how people apply or build effects too.

Often the hardware used, is the primary limiting factor and with most budget transducers only operating well within quite restrictive ranges of usable or best felt frequencies.

That is one of the first hurdles that needs to be overcome or achieved, at least for people that seek more performance from it. The next is to bring installation methods that let you best feel with body contact points, what those units are generating.

 

[DrewRPh]

Time flies when you are having fun....

Well at least when you are reading through a thread that spans nearly 7 years...

Logged an additional 4.5 hours on it yesterday before work and concluded with 2 more this morning. I finally completed: Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

Whew!!!

Talk about a "Hot Spot"... LOL See how I used the terminology there???

Good news: Finished that thread.

Bad news: Realized I now need to read/finish:

New Tactile Hardware 2023 / 2024

Rig Report - Peter Winkler

Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

I have been in and out of Mark's thread so many times, I have lost count (thanks to his index) so doubt I will read cover to cover but will no doubt I will be back in there.

When those are done, I might look for an invite to the Good Vibes Discord channel.

My better half works from home, and she is in the midst of her "busy season" (which only lasts about another 2 weeks) so logging some major time on the computer herself. With that, and waiting on shipments.... Can justify the extra time reading.

On a side note: ACROMYMS!!!!!!! I need to start a friggin dictionary!!!! LOL

As much of a "tactile research roll" as I am on right now, I need to shift gears back to the reality of what needs to get done ASAP.

1. Sound solution
2. Running network lines to the location
3. Running an additional power supply line from house breaker panel.
4. Determine if a USB hub will be needed and spec one if necessary.

Have been avoiding 2 and 3.... Just cuz I dread doing it.

One last point about the tactile research: I definitely think the time was well used as I now have some basic understanding of the concepts and will be thinking about them as I assemble my rigs (where hardware might fit, how it might attach in the future, and even how the wiring may be ran).

Today's update:

• Standard size Corbeau seat gets shipped out (returned) today.
• Pair of Wide Corbeau seats are scheduled to be in Friday.
• I have tomorrow (Friday) off work, so will try to work on the 4 items from above.

IF... (and that is a big "IF") I can finish the 4 items above, I may allow myself to:

If you must get a taster experience for tactile.....

The advice I can give you and if you want to experience what perhaps is currently the best performance/money spent at this current time in 2024.

Start with 2 of these

I can see myself experimenting with two of these on the back of one of the seats just for the most basic seat effect(s). As long as I am purchasing quality and expandable equipment, the money wouldn't be going to waste. Any type of full tactile could be several months down the road (probably not till fall/winter due to busy summer schedule).

 

[DrewRPh]

Per an off the cuff post about keeping track of one's expenses (Like a rolling price tag through posts on a build thread), I created a spread sheet to track expenses.

Each section is broken down with the individual Section and part. Just realized I want to go back and add a date column.

Actual dollar values have been removed as I don't need troll responses on how I could have made different choices or gotten a particular part cheaper... blaa, blaa, blaa. Or the comments of what I could have bought with the expense of the second rig.

This is just first part with computer section.

Part

On-Hand

Ordered

Decision Made

Planning

Description

Supplier

Cost of 1

Discount

Tax

Shipping

Total of 1

Total of 2

Computer

PC

x

CLX Intel Core i9-13900KF - 64GM Nvidia Geforce RTX 4070 2 TB NVMe M.2 SSD + 6TB HDD

Best Buy

$0.00

$0.00

$0.00

$0.00

$0.00

$0.00

USB Hub

x

?

Computer Sub Total

$0.00

$0.00

And then the bottom sums it all up. Tactile will probably be added as a line item in the future.

Item	Each	Both
Computer Sub Total	$0.00	$0.00
Cockpit Sub Total	$0.00	$0.00
Monitor/Stand Sub Total	$0.00	$0.00
Sound Sub Total	$0.00	$0.00
Controls Sub Total	$0.00	$0.00
Return expenses	$0.00	$0.00
Grand Total	$0.00	$0.00

 

[RCHeliguy]

With a 4070 I just want to confirm that you are only planning to only run single screens.