Twin Sims... The Build

[DrewRPh]

More progress!

 

[DrewRPh]

Seat install details.

Replaced a few of the silver washers provided for the seat install with a few of the extra Sim Lab cap washers

With the P1X pro eliminating the corner brackets, the seat rail are attached directly to the frame with a screw straight down through the rail.

This minimizes how wide the rails can be separated. I had to push it all the way as wide as it would go for the wide seats I have.

Since the front of the seat is about an inch wider than the back, I had to angle them out as wide as they would go as well which leaves them bowed out just a smidge.

I don't believe this is ideal, but all of the install videos I was watching also allowed for this slight bow.

Lastly, several of the videos and the paper instructions for the Sparco seat slider suggested to install the slider rail to the frame, then the seat bracket to the slider rail. I found it much easier to put the slider rail and seat bracket together first, then attach to the frame.

 

[DrewRPh]

Sliding pedal deck. ️

 

[DrewRPh]

Is the birthday I celebrated this last week ironic?? Well, maybe if you are in the US and use mph and not kph.

As for progress: Yesterday was the day for macro-adjustments. Installed the wheelbase, wheel and shifter to start the process of adjusting the rig.

Before

After

Pedal deck moved about 5 inches closer to seat. Also, gave it some tilt.

Uprights for steering wheel moved about 3.5 inches away from seat.

Seat reclined by one hole on the seat bracket.

Side arm moved down just the point where the seat won't rub against the shifter base in the fully forward seat position. The Simagic shifter is fairly tall. I probably would have gone a little lower if the clearance allowed.

The shifter install took much longer than expected. I used the Sim Lab shifter mount and surprisingly, the main install holes did not line up with the Simagic shifter. Ended up using a single bolt on front and back and it is much more stable than I thought it was going to turn out. It doesn't seem to budge at all.

P.S. I do like those Sim-Lab cap washers. They look sweet and keep me from scratching up the rig. I ordered extra packs of 6 black and 6 blue and have now used all additional black washers on this first rig. Might be ordering more.

As for remaining parts:

Mouse pad
Keyboard tray
Cup Holder
Sim shelf for computer
Sim floor

All of the above will just get in my way of making more fine-tuned adjustments so not adding them at this time.

I have errands to run but next step is to assemble a triple mount. I think the wheel is going to have to drop just a bit. Hoping I can just drop the wheel mount, but the uprights might get in the way of the triple mount so may have to drop the uprights instead.

Good progress considering my scheduled build was to start 4/26 (this Friday).

 

[blekenbleu]

The Simagic shifter is fairly tall. I probably would have gone a little lower if the clearance allowed.

Consider relocating that shifter horizontal mounting rail
so that it attaches to outside face of upright for wheelbase
and forward face of rear support,
then attach shifter to inside face of that horizontal rail.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Lookin´more ´n more like a SimRig

May I suggest to point the pedal slider handle backwards (to the seat) so you can remain seated while adjusting the pedals, just reach down to unlock the pedal deck?

 

[DrewRPh]

Consider relocating that shifter horizontal mounting rail
so that it attaches to outside face of upright for wheelbase
and forward face of rear support,
then attach shifter to inside face of that horizontal rail.

That would only push the rail out 1.5 inches and the shifter us 3.5 inches thick plus bracket width if any. Would be tight. Also, the H to sequential lever is on the right side.

I am thinking about getting an L mounting bracket and mounting to the right side of the horizontal.

 

[DrewRPh]

May I suggest to point the pedal slider handle backwards (to the seat) so you can remain seated while adjusting the pedals, just reach down to unlock the pedal deck

I was thinking the same when I was putting it together but the directions said facing out and wasn't sure if the lever would mess with footing getting in and out of the rig .

 

[DrewRPh]

Monitor stand assembled!

 

[DrewRPh]

For reference

Chris Haye helped me immensely when I set up mine three years ago:

 

[Mr Latte]

Nice detailed photos, the new angled parts help give these rigs a bit more style, looks good. Perhaps influenced by what Next Level or Sabelt rigs have done recently too?

Enjoying your shared progress including the little niggles you find or come across. Also, might be interesting to see if you configure each seat/pedals differently at the start just for 1-1 comparisons to see what positioning you think is best? I was a bit surprised you did not consider what I show below, with one of the rigs, to let you determine via 2x rigs more configuration setup options. With the added benefit most wont have, with instant back to back testing being possible to find your own ultimate preference?

I have a dilema in that none of the off the shelf options are ideal as need to make a custom sized rig, due to desire in applying motorised systems for seat/pedals/wheeldeck.

Did pefer this same option you went with but was surprised that the TR160 MK4 is the longest option from the popular brands, @50mm more in length at 1400mm. For me that mattered, or I would likely of ordered the same rig as a chassis to modify.

I did however recently order the the Simlab Inverted Pedal Rack as this in my view is the best/strongest one made by any of the sim rig companies. If wondering why, other than being an option some prefer. It brings certain benefits with tactile installations over typical pedal installs too. With inverted setups, we can better apply/control the direct vibrations that go into the pedal stems/plates. Also different or specific (stereo effects) to the foot rest section.

Some are happy with using only ABS and TC with slip and perhaps engine as effects. It certainly adds to the interaction and that may be enough for most people.

Yet continued experimentation has shown me, we can take the immersion much further, regards the feel of the car (g-forces/speed/steering/wheelslip/suspension) sensations with a different effects/approach to the norm used by most on pedals. *The design of this particular product, is more ideal for additional tactile units to be installed, that can deliver more effects sensations like mentioned, including large pro-tactile hardware if needed.

If you are considering tactile at a later time, or discover you like what it brings, then it might perhaps be worth considereing to standard pedal deck? No worries either way, would have liked to of seen impressions you had between standard or inverted pedals too, but will share it here, as it is hard to find videos/reviews on this product or peoples rigs that already have it.

 

[stigs2cousin]

While your "in there"

I was just standing in front of my rig and once again didn´t like the wiring harness for my tactile in the seat area being ziptied to the inside of the rig 40x160 profiles.
In my case i just couldn´t get the T-Nuts for the cable ties into the underside slots because the rig was to heavy and to low to the ground.

So maybe put some T-nuts into the underside slots while its relatively easy.
or if you plan to use something like this just forget about it:

Cable Management - IR Range - ALUMINIUM PROFILE & COMPONENTS

www.aluminium-profile.co.uk

 

[DrewRPh]

I was a bit surprised you did not consider what I show below, with one of the rigs, to let you determine via 2x rigs more configuration setup options. With the added benefit most wont have, with instant back to back testing being possible to find your own ultimate preference?

Thanks for the comments. Was considering the inverted pedals from the start thanks to Mark's (RCHeliguy) build. Less for the isolation, and more for the ability to swap over to a flight simulator in the future.

Early on, I abandoned that approach as it would complicate the primary goal of twin simulators that will fit a variety of sized drivers. The standard, sliding pedal deck may be less advantageous when it comes to isolation, but that is down the line at bit. I imagine I could configure an inverted set up on a slider base but the two inverted solutions I looked at attached directly to the frame.

Again, lots of potential solutions here but want to keep moving forward and complete "base models" (if you can call them that... ) ASAP.

I won't go too far off topic, but as part of my tactile research, I did see your comments in other threads about the isolation even between the left and right side of the pedal deck. Stereo effects. Lots of exciters... etc.

I can definitely see an inverted solution in the future, especially if I jump into the flight rabbit hole... Would be a cool comparison side by side since all of the other hardware is currently identical.

I should have kept track of how much time I have in this first build as it is significant. I am off work next week and the goal is to have two functional rigs by the end of the next week. I am glad I started prior to my advertised build start date of 4/26 .

To summarize, got to keep pushing forward with the two rigs as is and then want to get some type of basic tactile on the seat ASAP. Will probably start with the basic or 6 channel amps Mr. Latte suggests along with a pair of BDS exciters each so I can grow into a long-term solution. Once these are "finished" (and by that I mean functional) it would be nice to have at least some very basic tactile on the seats to "show them off" as friends and family are over..

So maybe put some T-nuts into the underside slots while its relatively easy.

Ooooo... good idea. Where were you like 2 days ago before I just lowered the rig? LOL

No, seriously, I just lowered the rig down due to the height of the monitor stands and lining up the monitor height. This rig is pretty tall and the feet make it possible to make it even taller. Taller to the point at which I am maxing out the height of the free standing monitor stands. When I guess-timated how high the monitors should be, I had the montor cross bar about 5-6 inches from the top. Now, I not only have moved the cross bar as high as possible, but also lowered the feet.

I am shooting for my eyes to be in about the middle of the screen... correct???

And I think I think I need to lower the wheel a bit.

Is there any magic angle off vertical I should be shooting for when it comes to the pitch of the wheel?

 

[stigs2cousin]

There are loads of crusades how you have to sit in your rig oe you won't go Nordschleife (SimRacers Heaven) But here's what works for me:

the Wheelbase height allows good clearance between wheel and thighs, the wheel axle should roughly point to your shoulder joints.
The goal is that the distance doesn't change much when you turn the wheel.

Ellbows should have a generous angle when driving straight.

 

[DrewRPh]

the Wheelbase height allows good clearance between wheel and thighs, the wheel axle should roughly point to your shoulder joints.
The goal is that the distance doesn't change much when you turn the wheel.

Ellbows should have a generous angle when driving straight.

Can you put "good clearance" in mm and "generous angle" in degrees?

Just kidding. I have seen several "suggested" set ups and even one lengthy video where the person was claiming that he had his seat as far reclined as possible yet even I noticed right away that his seat brackets were on backwards... LOL

Falls back on the whole "personal preference" thing again which makes assembling these things a true joy for total newbies...

On another topic, daughter was downstairs with me so we played around getting the monitors in place for a test fit. Don't laugh at the angle or gaps as I just wanted to get a feel of what they would look like and roughly how much space they would take up.

The "Pivot Perfect" and "Vario Versa" mounts from Sim Lab should make this easier to adjust but still seems like a pain to get these lined up. After messing around with these for a bit, I can't imagine trying to do this without the Vario Versa brackets.

Now I need to scroll back in this thread and look for the "Perfect viewing" angle references.

Once I determine how wide they are going to be, I need to make a decision on placement on the floor. With how wide they are, I don't think I and just put them side by side as the wall is not wide enough. Considering angled, off set, or even at a complete 180 degrees to each other with shifter sides closest together.

I want to determine placement on the floor before messing with the fine tuning the monitors on the monitor stands.

 

[stigs2cousin]

You could start with a 60° Monitor angle.

For seat angle, keep in mind that formedium to high brake pressures the backrest needs to hold and stabilize your spine. So don't go too relaxed, I personally am at aprox 80° from horizontal. But I can play with lumbar support which race seats usually don't have.
(street car Recaro Sportster CS)

 

[DrewRPh]

So where is the post from someone that says that FOV (field of view) is one of the view things that is not personal preference? I through I made a reference to it, but apparently not.

3x32 in 1000R curved monitors with eye height at center of screen.

Now I don't want to start a tangent about FOV as there are crazy number of posts on it...

I found the calculator I was looking at where you can put in values.

At the end of the day, how far from my eyes should the middle monitor be? Is the goal 180 degrees in the below calculator?

With my set up and willingness to take up additional space if needed, how far should my eyes be from screen. I am at about 73cm now but have room to move it closer if needed.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I believe most people would like it closer, I'm at aprox 64cm,but with 27" tripples.
At that distance they are behind my complete Wheelbase.
To go closer I'd have to modify my (homebrew) minitor stand and probably escalate to 1440p screens, with 1080p I don't have to look too hard to see pixels (in the desktop, ingame it's fine.)

 

[DrewRPh]

Room layout.

I was just down pondering the layout and if these rig end up being about 152cm (60 inches) wide, it would only overlap the door frame a smidge. Now that the bar that was going to extend into the room has been eliminated, I don't think this is a big deal (on the 9'7"wall).

What would be a pain is adjusting the slider pedal deck that ends up on the left. If I go this route, I might have to consider reversing the adjustment bar as was earlier suggested, so is it reachable from the seat.

 

[DrewRPh]

Taking some notes before pulling monitors and positioning.

Monitor stand slightly wider than monitors. The stand extends about 2 inches past monitors when the stand is at about 55 degrees.

Monitors extend about 9 inches in front of stand.

Now, for Monitor stand positioning. I was planning to tuck the monitor feet as close to the rig as possible thinking it might be a trip hazzard.

But!!!!! This will make sliding the rig out from under the monitors impossible for later maintenance/add ons.

I considered reversing the front feet so they were under the rig instead of sticking out but that could make it slightly less stable and the bolts could interfere with future pedal plate modifications.

The fact that this monitor stand if VERY stable AND by sliding the legs wider, the side arms attachment point will move even closer to the uprights (if not directly on) would only be a plus.

So I think I am going to widen the monitor stand feet to just clear the rig feet.

So... to work I go. The game room and theatre room are a disaster right now. Need to get it cleaned up.

Going to pull the monitors, reposition the legs, then get on with building the second monitor stand.

For about a half minute this morning I was considering painting the one wall with the mounted TV with dark gray paint (almost black) that matches what have in parts of the theatre. But thankfully that thought passed. LOL

I have the ceiling can lights in that corner (over the TV) on a separate switch so it can be a little darker in that corner than the rest of the room.