AC FWD vs RWD@Brands Hatch, Wed 15th May 2024

HF2000 · May 9, 2024

Welcome to the RD Racing Club.

I'm away for a holiday the next two week so there's an opportunity to (re)visit tracks I don't like myself, starting with Brands Hatch. Next week Monaco will follow.
Brands Hatch doesn't need an introduction, it has been available in AC almost from the start so everyone knows it.

Sign up:
Go to the FWD vs RWD series Q2 using the Emperor account you have been given and register with your steamID.

If you don't have an Emperor account yet, ask for one by posting in this thread (only for premium members).

Server information:

Server: Racedepartment Server 1 Password: standard password, if you don't know that, ask for it in this thread and it will be send in a PM.
20:00 CEST, 19:00 BST (18:00 UTC) | 60 minutes - Official Practice
21:05 CEST, 20:05 BST (19:05 UTC) | 20 minutes - Qualification
21:30 CEST, 20:30 BST (19:30 UTC) | 60 minutes - Race
Practiceserver available during the week. Same password.

Event details:

Cars: Abarth 500 Assetto Corse/Mazda MX5 Cup/Suzuki Swift R3 Sport
Track: Brands Hatch GP (Kunos)
Please sign up as soon as possible
Pit stop: Mandatory (at least 1 liter of fuel)
Tyre blankets: Yes
Track Road temperature: 37 Celsius
Track grip: 100%
Track limits: No more than 2 wheels over the white/yellow line without a lift of the gas please. You will be penalized if you break this rule.
Damage: 10%
Fuel Consumption: 40%
Tyre wear: 10%

Useful Links:

RaceDepartment Discord: click here
Sync Accounts: click here
Recommended apps: Helicorsa (mandatory) + CarRadar+ Top/Centre Flags or AC_Flags + CrewChief
Tracks, Cars, Apps Installation Guide: click here (Handy guide to install non AC content)
Racing Club Rules: click here
Incident Reporting: click here

Entry list (tab entrants)

BaldPaul · May 13, 2024

Apologies Gents but work means that I will not be joining you on Wednesday.

You can all broth a collective sigh of relief that the rolling chicane has been removes for this race.....

Paul

Kek700 · May 13, 2024

From the @BaldPaul statement above
And to who it may concern…

Interesting, I really enjoyed the challenges of getting faster. I like the pond I am in, but deciding the ocean was full of too many over-the-top egotistically competitive people.
On this forum you can find your level.
We are lucky that we have a broad range of abilities, some you can race with, some you can chase. When one of our quick drivers overtakes, use that as a bench mark and try and find by observing where he makes the time up. It is not always what you think.
Now I am in no mans land, reached the end of my ability, consequently, I envy people who are trying to get quicker, the challenge far outways just racing for a place

I know I have said this a 1000 times, first race after a few years of racing AI, I was 6 seconds off the pace. ( shocked I was too )

That kick started my long journey of making an incompetent idiot faster. Now generally I can hold my own, “sometimes”. But I have never forgotten the pleasure of knocking those 6 seconds off.
Now I just find something to moan about,

I still look for something in my driving or setup to give me an edge.
For us normals it take a lot of effort and time.
Some are gifted things both physically, mentally or materilistically in our society and consequently have an advantage over others. That does not stop us trying, because counter intuitively though it may seem, that is were the fun is.
The end

stigs2cousin · May 13, 2024

Although, my dearest Sir,
we should not gloss over the fact that improving in Simracing ( other than raw and despicable talent

) requires not only dedication of time and commitment, but also a degree of structured practice.

"Just practice more/harder" only fits the friggin aliens who have a subconcious understanding of racing line, car control, setup work and race craft.

For the beginner I´d suggest a two prong approach of understanding the basics of car control (steering/wheight transfer) and the racing line.

For "Youtube lerners" I recommend the videos of Danny Lee, especially this one on car control:

He also has a video on how to lern tracks quickly.

So if time is limited, go the "track du jour", drive three laps S L O W L Y in far chase cam to learn the track and especially the trackside markers (curbs, tyre walls, rescue lanes, corner worker post, bridges asf) which will help memorizing brake and turn in/track out markers. Be carefull to always hit your choosen apex.

Then go to cockpit cam and drive the track in smooth lines with the widest possible corners, "use all the track"
Start to incrementally brake later and throttle earlier.

This should get you in viewing distance of the mid pack, maybe even let you collect a "freeby" or two.
But don´t count on keeping the freeby, the driver gone offroading will most probably be faster than you and will reclaim his spot

Kek700 · May 13, 2024

Although I cannot fault anything you say, and I don't. The hard part is understanding momentum. That takes a lot of practice to fully understand. Other wise you are just ticking boxes without understanding what you are trying to achieve.
I can see it with Fulvio or Jason, luckily I can just about keep with them for a few laps, “sometimes”.
So I know what to do ( I can see it ) I just cannot get this old frame to comply.
I believe that it is the main difference between people, I cannot do it, so I cannot see it. I think if you find someone who can do it naturally. They then see it naturally.
I have been racing Jason since he first showed up and immediately noticed this.
Then!!! all I needed to do was hang on and wait for an off, it did not take him long to correct that.
I think as time has ebbed by he has refined it.
My biggest problem is totally incapable of trial braking, which caused me so many problems. So I use other things to compensate, unfortunately you cannot polish a turd.
Generally I am under the illusion that I can learn a circuit quickly, mainly because I don't have go visit AE or a body shop.
Probably within 3 to 4 laos I am up to pace, with just the refinement to find.
But, I lap, when I come off I restart, if I come of again even in the same corner, I restart.
The difficulty is with sims, there is only a 2D representation, so it is difficult to find references. When I find a difficult corner I try and find a reference for that corner. Gives me a warning that I need to be more careful at this approach.

zn1zn2c · May 13, 2024

I wholeheartedly agree with Carsten, especially the part about weight transfer and the racing line. There are countless times where I see drivers not taking advantage of the entire track width, sometimes leaving up to a car's width of room. Just focusing on that for a bit will see you gain tenths per lap, sometimes even per corner!

Weight transfer and the complementary trail braking is another thing that when it clicks, you immediately go up a few ranks. Things start to make sense, like why you always have under- or oversteer in certain corners, why some people seem to be able to rotate the car more than you, etc.

I haven't watched the video but I will, because repetition helps a lot! Another youtuber I would recommend is Suellio Almeida, in particular the technique videos or the "this student found X seconds" videos.

davejevons · May 13, 2024

Much of what @stigs2cousin says resonates with me. I used to spend a lot of time going round and round but getting no quicker and then in the race being a long way off the pace. I'm still quite slow but I have found a structured approach to practice helps me avoid being lapped by the entire field every week without dedicating hours and hours.

Some additions to Carsten's list are:

Take notes - this is really important and has made the most difference in helping me understand what I need to do to get faster. I do 5 laps at a time, then watch the replay, make notes and have a plan for the next 5 laps.
Set the car up to be safe, rather than fast. That way you spend less time int he outfield searching for how to get back on the track.
Watch other racers onboard for lines, gear choice and braking points in practice. Find someone a bit faster than you and copy their lines
Find a sim racing friend to practice with. Chatting over discord while practicing helps understand is it a you issue or a generic issue. I'm lucky enough to have a grumpy but fast 13 year old son who tuts at my lines when I get it wrong.

I can highly recommend Chris Haye's excellent guide to practicing from which I stole most of my approach:

...which in turn was inspired by this thread on RD - what comes around goes around.

I do feel like a fraud telling people how to practice having come last in Sunday's race...

BaldPaul · May 13, 2024

Why did I make the jump from Forza to 'Proper' sim racing?

Quite simple really - I can no longer afford to race in the real world, something that I have missed since I had to hang up my helmet 20 years ago.

Tried Karting - stupid expensive and being a larger gentlemen, the racing whippets always have an advantage of around 0.5-0.7 seconds per lap. Damn them.

Track days - There are two ways of approaching these. Buy a GT3RS or spend insane amounts of money building a car that is, at best 40% of a GT3RS.

Therefore I have broken my therapy down into a simple, 3 part strategy.

1. Go to the local arrive and drive karting track with my boys and their friend and spend an hour annoying the other arrive and drivers - it goes someway to scratching the competitive itch.
2. Build a track day Clio - a big turbo and R888's means that there is very little that you cant hunt down especially when if it all goes wrong there is less than £6K in the car total.
3. Sim racing. It gives me the feeling you get from competitive racing, well it will once I get out of the current learning to walk stage.

And that Gentlemen is why I appreciate the comradery and support I have been shown on this very forum.

Look forward to catching up with you later in the week - shame as Brands is one of my favourite IRL tracks. Still would have been rubbish though!

Paul

stigs2cousin · May 13, 2024

They are always like this

I try to keep it entry level to not overload the "Greenhorn"

(which btw seems to have loads of irl experience

) and everybody dumps more information and plans of action on top (which of course are correct and important 2nd and 3rd steps)

So Paul, get yourself a brew and analyse what you're doing differently in the fake Mazda.

I'd chance a guess and say you're a "seat of the pants driver" and are f....ed without the tactile feedback of the G forces and tyre feel.

That' why I suggested to pay more attention to optical clues aka "markers"

BaldPaul · Tuesday at 08:13

Carsten,

You, my friend, are a genius.

I have been struggling to understand why the big disconnect and you, succinctly, have summarised the challenge in one line!

Your 1 on 1 tuition the other night has really helped by the way, so please accept this virtual beer

( apologies there is no beer emoji so a coffee will have to do) as a token of my gratitude.

Until the next time!

Paul

stigs2cousin · Tuesday at 09:40

Thank you for the kind words ( and the coffee which is my beverage of the hour anyway.

)

Back from the coffee maker I have an admission or two:

firstly I suffered from the same disconnect when I started the virtual racing life. There are technical ways to cope with that but I won´t tease you with that until you´ve come to grips with the concept of markers.

And secondly the analysis and "portioning of advice" is routed in my day job, I´ve been teaching people how to not die on motorcycles and cars for some time now.

Boukâh · Tuesday at 22:20

To add to all of the above, getting rid of the rotating desk chair with casters, a dd-wheelbase bolted to a flimsy desk and pedals taped to the floor, is also highly recommended

Finally, after two and a half years of getting into simracing (from KartKraft to AC and ACC), I was finally able to buy myself a somewhat decent seat/rig/car-without-engine-and-wheels!

Playseat Trophy. Also checked next level gtracer, but couldn’t find one on the second hand market close to home.

This feels so much better already, although I’m still fine tuning. Feeling some ffb through the rig is nice as well. But great to feel more as if I’m connected to the pedals (brake especially) and the wheel. Big step up in sim racing experience.

Not good for my addiction though

Allan Ramsbottom · Wednesday at 09:50

Im still sticking to my Theory..More Throttle Less Braking..

..
OK OK there is a bit of truth in that,the ultimate thing is Slow In Fast Out,positioning the car to hit the corner Apex is vital,what we race with on weds night have limited set up options but they can make a difference,the Mazda is notorious at scrubbing speed if you get it wrong...but with the right amount of Toe/Camber,ARB,Dampers,it can also be pretty formidable...Practice is another key element...
Anyway @Shed 17 c,mon Muka the Gauntlet has been thrown down...Should be Epic.

...

Shed 17 · Wednesday at 11:00

@allan Ramsbottom

Nice time Allan, but you know that the no matter what time I do in practice, the Suzuki Slug is so slow off the line that most of the field goes past before turn 1

.
I'm just trying to find somewhere on the track where I'm not flat out already but that only leaves Druids hairpin but I'm working on it !!

(but then I get cramp in my right foot as it doesn't move off the pedal)

Kek700 · Wednesday at 12:32

Yes i agree Paul, you just have to accept the Suzuki's negatives and try not to over compensate for them.
We get stuffed on the start and stuffed on pit exit, but and this is a big but, we get a car that does not get terminal oversteer or understeer.
the start is not to long here at Brands, so at least the whole field should not go past before the next corner, but you can virtually abandon any normal overtakes here.

stigs2cousin · Wednesday at 12:47

"Decisions have Consequences"

J. Wick

You decided you wanted a car that was ~~kindergarten~~ easy to drive, now please stop complaining that it is not the fastest out there.