What to buy? Fanatec CSW or T500RS

[Ilias Axarlis]

I'm thinking to buy CSW base with the gt2 rim and the v2 pedals, I'm actualy between this and the T500 RS, but I have found reports for bad reliability on fanatec products but there are all 1 year ago. Is there any new feedback on this? Have they fixed the problems or they are still there?

 

[UFwho]

Nope, do I have to work for them to point out the flaws in your post?

I was just joking. Did my initial rant against Fanatec offend you? It's simply ridiculous for them to put the repair work in the hands of their clients. Also, since the ten months of ownership began, I have been in "process" as they like to call it for more than 5 of those months. Maybe some of my statements are uninformed. And maybe they don't legally have to do anything for me, but it doesn't change the fact that it's been a terrible and frustrating experience. If you re-read my first post, at the end I'm still acknowledging that it's a great product when it works.

 

[InsaneOzzie]

In addition to my previous post (#22), I would like to say that I have had a few dealings with Fanatec recently as I pre-ordered the CSS SQ shifter, after some months waiting I received my shifter, but I was unable to configure it, no matter what I did.

I sent Fanatec an email which was none to complimentary, only to be asked if I had configured the shifter, to which I replied, "no" you can imagine my embarrassment when they replied that it had to be configured to the CSW base, after another email we discovered the issue was that the configuration guide had not been included with the product, not a big deal really, someone forgot to put one in the box at the manufacturing plant, which is in China I might add.

The Fanatec staffer I was dealing with couldn't apologise enough (3 times in 1 email actually) for the missing config guide, and provided me the PDF version link, problem solved. I found Fanatec support to be outstanding, and even though I was some what scathing in my email they were understanding of my attitude at the time.

I am extremely happy with my Fanatec CSW, GT2 & F1 rims, the addition of the CSS SQ shifter has taken my Sim-racing experience to a new level, and now that I have become even more familiar with the settings available on the rims, I have found that I am enjoying my Sim-racing even more as I have been able to configure the rims & FFB exactly to my liking and driving style.

One thing I would point out here is that CSW components are made in China under contract, and not in Germany by Fanatec, so it took them some time to get the manufacturing bugs sorted out, this doesn't distract from the fact that a small percentage of their products have had issues, but the CSW, like many new products, was prone to teething issues, which, as far as I know, have been sorted out, but this doesn't mean there wont be some products that fail from time to time, it happens to the best manufacturers on the planet, it's just the way it is I'm afraid, nothing is perfect.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm just impressed with the product and the after sales service Ive received, and I recommend their products, based on my experiences so far. For those that have had negative dealings with Fanatec, I'm sorry to hear it & I hope that you are able to resolve the issue to your advantage, but local warranty laws are a major problem in some countries and don't always favour the consumer when dealing with international products that fail to perform to expectations.

Cheers

 

[UFwho]

In addition to my previous post (#22), I would like to say that I have had a few dealings with Fanatec recently as I pre-ordered the CSS SQ shifter, after some months waiting I received my shifter, but I was unable to configure it, no matter what I did.

I sent Fanatec an email which was none to complimentary, only to be asked if I had configured the shifter, to which I replied, "no" you can imagine my embarrassment when they replied that it had to be configured to the CSW base, after another email we discovered the issue was that the configuration guide had not been included with the product, not a big deal really, someone forgot to put one in the box at the manufacturing plant, which is in China I might add.

The Fanatec staffer I was dealing with couldn't apologise enough (3 times in 1 email actually) for the missing config guide, and provided me the PDF version link, problem solved. I found Fanatec support to be outstanding, and even though I was some what scathing in my email they were understanding of my attitude at the time.

I am extremely happy with my Fanatec CSW, GT2 & F1 rims, the addition of the CSS SQ shifter has taken my Sim-racing experience to a new level, and now that I have become even more familiar with the settings available on the rims, I have found that I am enjoying my Sim-racing even more as I have been able to configure the rims & FFB exactly to my liking and driving style.

One thing I would point out here is that CSW components are made in China under contract, and not in Germany by Fanatec, so it took them some time to get the manufacturing bugs sorted out, this doesn't distract from the fact that a small percentage of their products have had issues, but the CSW, like many new products, was prone to teething issues, which, as far as I know, have been sorted out, but this doesn't mean there wont be some products that fail from time to time, it happens to the best manufacturers on the planet, it's just the way it is I'm afraid, nothing is perfect.

I'm not a fanboy, I'm just impressed with the product and the after sales service Ive received, and I recommend their products, based on my experiences so far. For those that have had negative dealings with Fanatec, I'm sorry to hear it & I hope that you are able to resolve the issue to your advantage, but local warranty laws are a major problem in some countries and don't always favour the consumer when dealing with international products that fail to perform to expectations.

Cheers

Understood. I love the felling in the wheel. it fits my set up like nothing else would. My anger stems from all the waiting. weeks without updates or replies from germany. The reseller says they also think I should have a replacement unit since I'm insisting on it after what happened with the pedals. They are saying that if they just take the decision to send me a new one then they will risk their relationship with fanatec. They also have had no news or decisions or solutions in a bunch of RMA's they have submitted in early November because of the oversold shifters. BTW when I received the base, rim and pedals in three boxes, there were no user manuals in any of them.

 

[InsaneOzzie]

Understood. I love the felling in the wheel. it fits my set up like nothing else would. My anger stems from all the waiting. weeks without updates or replies from germany. The reseller says they also think I should have a replacement unit since I'm insisting on it after what happened with the pedals. They are saying that if they just take the decision to send me a new one then they will risk their relationship with fanatec. They also have had no news or decisions or solutions in a bunch of RMA's they have submitted in early November because of the oversold shifters. BTW when I received the base, rim and pedals in three boxes, there were no user manuals in any of them.

I hear what your saying UFwho, the products are excellent, but the after sales service is somewhat dubious, It has taken up to 3 weeks for me to receive replies from Fanatec, but my issue was not hardware based, and as you have stated, they are snowed under with other issues ATM, which is making the situation even more frustrating for people like yourself who have issues with products.

My F1 rim was dead out the box when I received it, but Fanatec just sent me a new one, no questions asked, when I received it I was then required to send the faulty one back, no drama, I even received the $20AU I used to post the rim back to them in my Pay Pal acc. So my experiences with Fanatec have been fairly good ones, "So Far"
If I were in your situation I would be onto the Department of Consumer Protection or relevant authority in your country, there are laws that protect consumers with this type of thing, maybe it would be worth you checking out your legal standing in this, you might find Fanatec are compelled by law to replace the faulty product in full, not just provide you the parts to fix it. Hope you get some joy soon mate.

I had User Quick Guides included with the base and both Rims, but Ive only had my gear for about 6Mths now, maybe they didn't include them in the early models, have you downloaded the guides from Fanatec? always best to have em handy, even if it is in PDF format.

Ide still recommend Fanatec CSW over the T500RS any day.

Cheers

 

[Mika Kerttula]

Great to read arguments for your opinions perhaps some kind of poll would intresting to see where our thoughts are going. Is there similarities between wheels?

 

[RaceNut]

I read somewhere that the latest T500RS may have the new brushless motors like the TX as they are smoother than the older versions and sport a better cooling fan - anyone know anything about that?

I would go with the CSW for the overall features but, the motor failure rate is just too high and makes me leery. If the T500RS has some upgrades, it would make my decision a little easier. The overall size of the base is not to my liking though as I have to use it on my desk.

Interestingly, I contacted Fanatec about the motors in the CSW and they replied saying that the heat issues have been resolved by heat-testing the motors. Based on reading about the technical aspects of the failures, I doubt that would be enough to improve the issue substantially. It sounds as though they need a more robust motor - period. Extra cooling capacity would help too.

 

[InsaneOzzie]

That's interesting to know Racenut, heat testing each motor would be a time consuming process, I wonder what conditions there using for testing, be interesting to know the details. But from what your saying the issues aren't just heat? can you elaborate, or drop a link, I'd be interested in reading the technical info.

I haven't experienced any issues with heat, I would hazard a guess the fan on my CSW base has a thermal switch, as I hear the fan shift up a gear quite often, specially on the warmer 36-40Celsius days of a West Australian summer, and believe me this fan pumps some air. Maybe I was lucky and got a "Wednesday build", I haven't had any problems with my base.

But if air flow is/was an issue, It would be simple to get it sorted, certainly cooling vents could be cut in at the rear of the housing to increase air flow, possibly allowing for an exhaust fan on both sides of the housing, "nudge nudge, wink wink" Fanatec, There's always the other solution that you mentioned, redesign the motor with better heat management, but this would possibly require a larger housing, and I don't think Fanatec would consider that an option somehow.

As I said, I've never had a T500RS so I can't compare it to Fanatec's offering, but if the brushless option is on the production line, it could sway alot of consumers away from Fanatec's product.

Cheers

 

[MarkVenom]

I read somewhere that the latest T500RS may have the new brushless motors like the TX as they are smoother than the older versions and sport a better cooling fan - anyone know anything about that?

I would go with the CSW for the overall features but, the motor failure rate is just too high and makes me leery. If the T500RS has some upgrades, it would make my decision a little easier. The overall size of the base is not to my liking though as I have to use it on my desk.

Interestingly, I contacted Fanatec about the motors in the CSW and they replied saying that the heat issues have been resolved by heat-testing the motors. Based on reading about the technical aspects of the failures, I doubt that would be enough to improve the issue substantially. It sounds as though they need a more robust motor - period. Extra cooling capacity would help too.

This is completely resolved since around 3-4 months buddy. Motors are NOT overheating anylonger. Secondly the 'high' failure rate you are referring to afflicted around 8% of units of the original batch buddy. I got those numbers from distributors btw. So this whole Fanatec's quality is not up to par is nonsense. It actually derives strongly from Inside sim racing, namely Darrin Gangy, who for whatever reason is a ThrustMaster fanboy and always nitpicks on Fanatec's gear etc. Fanatec CSW is by FAR the best wheel on the market this side of a thousand bucks. Same goes for the ClubSport pedals. ThrustMaster kit ain't bad, but it is plastic rubbish at the end of the day. If you like real, buy Fanatec. Service in Aussie in case of failure is spot on. Never had any issues not being resolved within a week.

Sorry I just hate this spreading of rumors re. Fanatec's reliability and had to set the record straight. Signing out.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I'll add a little in regard to the story with Darin Gangi and Fanatec.
Darin used to be pro Fanatec, he got to know the CEO, Thomas, and this led to Darin starting to work for/with Fanatec. I have no idea what kind of work he was supposed to do but shortly after Darin and Thomas came to a conflict over something they had different opinions on and this led to them splitting up again shortly after teaming up.
This is why ISR stopped reviewing Fanatec hardware, some say it was Darin who didn't want to, others that Thomas refused to send them stuff to review (ISR don't buy gear to review, so unless they get a free review example shipped there will be no review).
In any case the relationship between ISR and Fanatec was pretty sour at this point, and while I have never seen Darin badmouthing Fanatec reliability myself, I think it's plausible considering the aforementioned.

There's another player in the industry that I've personally seen talking about Fanatec reliability issues and recommending people to buy a T500 instead, without actually owning Bodin himself, namely John Bodin.
John is the guy behind the load cell mod for the T500 pedals, so he is hardly completely objective this matter.

 

[Boby Kim]

Reading this thread is not making it easier....i really do need a G27 replacement (with pain in my heart). I just cant stand the FFB noise anymore. Even when i turn down the FFB, once i hit kerbs or grass, the G27 starts making noise. Im truly honest: if i would be able to buy the Fanatec in a local shop i would have been mine already! I just do not thrust them with the quality. When i see the order price which is about 900 euro's, and i think about some guy at fanatec packaging a repaired kit, sending towards my home, only being confronted with problems, sending back etc...i just could not stand it for a second. These kind of prices i do not buy blindly online. I need to see and feel the quality. I need to talk to a shop manager about waranty. That when i have problems i can visit the shop, instead of sending back the hardware by post.
Dilemma deluxe!

 

[Kevin Watts]

I'm just a lowly Porsche 911 Turbo S wheel owner, can't afford a top of the range CSW but if I could I would because to date my experience with Fanatec's tech support has been top notch. I'm not typing this to upset the poster experiencing problems, just wanted to share my experience to offer a little balance to the discussion and before anyone ask's - no I don't work for Fanatec else I would have that nice shiny CSW on my desk

My good experience goes all the way back to me pre-ordering the Porsche 911 Turbo S wheel months before it launched. I sent in a few emails with queries on the hardware, and compatibility as at the time I was planning to use my G25 pedals with the wheel but later changed my mind and bought the Clubsport pedals. Each pre-sales question was answered within 24 hours by a nice lady called Sabine who was polite and courteous. When my wheel finally arrived I was overjoyed. I set it up but after a few months it developed a fault so I contacted Fanatec. My first email was responded to in around 20 minutes requesting some further information on the fault, I responded immediately and got a further reply within 15 minutes requesting my address, I again responded immediately and that same evening a gentleman who I believe was called Armin informed me they would send a new unit to me and would not expect me to send the old one back to save me the cost of shipping. This email exchange took place between 4:00pm and 5:30 the same day. I had expected a long drawn out exchange of emails over days as I have experienced with other manufacturers. This experience is why I would buy from Fanatec again.

As for Darin Gangi, I don't particularly like the guy, I thought he had a big ego and then his famous meltdown on VirtualR posting as ISRacing http://www.virtualr.net/srt-episode-61-first-rfactor-2-video-footage confirmed that without a shadow of doubt for me that he really is a self serving egotist. ISR used to talk a lot about Fanatec and gave them lots of coverage, it paid off for Darin as they eventually employed him. That relationship turned sour and all of a sudden Thrustmaster were the hardware manufacturers being promoted heavily and Darin would throw in comments about upcoming races where he would ditch his Fanatec pedals as he claimed he could not trust them to last a race. He made plenty more carefully worded slights against Fanatec on his and iRacing's forums. It's not just hardware either though, when Simraceway was throwing money their way their top sim cars segments were awash with rFactor related items but once that sponsorship ended Darin was pretty critical of Simraceway's new sim and heavily promoted their new sponsor iRacing. Behaviour like that is why I take ISR reviews with a pinch of salt.

 

[Pete Bone]

Reading this thread is not making it easier....i really do need a G27 replacement (with pain in my heart). I just cant stand the FFB noise anymore. Even when i turn down the FFB, once i hit kerbs or grass, the G27 starts making noise. Im truly honest: if i would be able to buy the Fanatec in a local shop i would have been mine already! I just do not thrust them with the quality. When i see the order price which is about 900 euro's, and i think about some guy at fanatec packaging a repaired kit, sending towards my home, only being confronted with problems, sending back etc...i just could not stand it for a second. These kind of prices i do not buy blindly online. I need to see and feel the quality. I need to talk to a shop manager about waranty. That when i have problems i can visit the shop, instead of sending back the hardware by post.
Dilemma deluxe!

I bought a T500rs 3 weeks ago and its brilliant. Its is light years ahead of a DFGT and 100% more reliable than Fanatec wheels. Im even using the Thrustmaster pedals instead of my Clubsports, they feel just as good.

 

[Tim Meuris]

interesting read guys,

same dilemma here as my friend Boby
my g25 is getting old and i'm ready for a new experience in a few months when I have more space once I'm living in a house instead of a student room
but as much as I love the whole clubsport line (except the bmwlogo)
it's still a ton of money so an impulmsive buy will not be the case...

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I bought a T500rs 3 weeks ago and its brilliant. Its is light years ahead of a DFGT and 100% more reliable than Fanatec wheels. Im even using the Thrustmaster pedals instead of my Clubsports, they feel just as good.

And what numbers and sources do you have to back your bold statement that the T500 is 100% more reliable than a CSW?

 

[Pete Bone]

It was a tongue in cheek comment, but id been looking for a new wheel for 4 years and the two things that swung in the favour of the T500 was Fanatecs issues, of which the net is full, and the £2500 price tag on the SimSteering wheel.

I was so so close to ordering the Clubsport pack but the risk of it going wrong was far too much for me, if the T500 goes wrong its back to the shop for a replacement, and if my DFGT has been going nearly 6 years and doesnt look used it was a no brainer for me. If Fanatec had a distributor in the UK(like PC World or some such big company) and better customer support i would be using the Clubsport wheel. When they do have this, the T500 will go on Ebay and i will have whatever is the Clubsport equivalent at the time, if i havent gone totally mad and got the Simsteering setup.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Problem is Pete, there was nothing in your comment stating that it was tongue in cheek, and to people on the fence it would/could be perceived as a factual statement.
This is the biggest issue Fanatec is facing imo, rumors, some dude posting on a forum saying "my fanatec died after a week, i had my T500 for 3 years and no problems, evidently fanatec has **** quality cos my wheel broke down!" then another dude comes along saying "yeah my wheel broke too". Suddenly you have a lot of people reading these comments and not only believing in it but even taking it one step further, when someone on any forum out there ask for advice on choice of wheel, they'll gladly answer and tell people to stay away from Fanatec due to reliability issues, without having owned a wheel themselves, and without basing their statements on fact and statistics.
Or it may even be based on a misunderstanding of a "tongue in cheek" post, as yours Pete.

I'm not saying that Fanatec doesn't suffer failures, but I've seen far too many people commenting on their poor reliability who I suspect have little to no factual base to do so.

 

[Dietmar]

I am currently in a similar position:

Actually I have the impression that my Fanatec GT3RS is dieing on me (just emailed Fanatec on that matter actually), but it is out of warranty, I also have a set of CSP v1, not flawless though.

BUT, I contacted, especially on the CSPs, Fanatec Support a couple of times. I think by now every electronical part got replaced, everytime no long discussion, the parts were sent and the problems were solved.

Not sure whether I am going to buy soon a new wheel as I am also not racing a lot at the moment for presonal reasons, I am also looking at other options (e.g. the Thrustmaster TX).

Main reasons for me against the T500:

• Plastic, you can talk about as much as you want how good nowadays plastic is, there is still some flex in there and e.g. I am reading about issues that the mechanism for swapping wheels leads to little play in the wheel (there are fixes for it, but I want a reliable solution out of the box)
• Most probably I would end up buying another rim (the GTE one) as I do not like the idea of the fixed paddels.

Mains reasons for me aganst the Fanatec:

• Price (you get the T500 for less than 400€ in Germany and the Fanatec solution would start at 630€ if you take the fomular rim)
• Is it long lasting? (I liked my current wheel, I actually still do, when it is working, but having it dieing on me after roughly 3 years of not super intense use, I have doubts. On the other hand, it used to be a V1 and I got one of the upgrade kits, which I did myself, so highly modified and good effort from Fanatec to keep their customers happy to offer the upgrade kit at a rather low price for implementing yourself without loosing warranty!!!!!)

Fanatec is offering this 'Premium warranty' thing, which gives you better service while under warranty. I would not be interested in it, if I could extend my standard warranty by a year for the same price, that's something I would like to see.

My current preference..... not important, changes to often at the moment! But it is money vs. metal, more for metal today.

 

[InsaneOzzie]

I really don't understand what all the fuss is about, most people purchase based on affordability, personally I think the Fanatec CSW gear is top notch for it's price, never tried a T500RS so wont pass judgement on something Ive never owned, unlike some others. All new products have some teething issues, Fanatecs gear is no exception, but the problems have been solved, if your still not convinced ask Fanatec themselves, not a divided and bias community.

I will say that if you are looking to update to a new wheel, then do your own research, don't go 100% by what the community says, in the end your the one that has to be happy with your purchase, so get what you want based on your own thought's & research, sure you might have to spend a few more dollars for the gear you really wanted, but ask yourself this, "will you be 100% happy with your 2nd choice.

When the time came to replace my G25, I ummed n aard over what to get for months, but in the end I went for the Fanatec gear, even though there had been minor teething issues with the product at first, plus, I just didn't like the all plastic appeal of the T500RS. After all the G25 was plastic fantastic, but I wanted something better, stronger and of greater quality, I wanted to get out of the sim-toys and into some sim-gear,

When I purchase any product I look at it from the point of view, "you get what you pay for", this is also why I avoided Fanatec's v2 pedals and went for CST F1 pedals, none of the other pedal offerings came close to the quality of the CST's, sure in the end I've spent well over $2,500AUD on my sim gear, but I know its the best I can afford, and that it's well constructed with quality components, backed up with decent manufacturer direct after sales service.

Cheers!

 

[RaceNut]

I am not trying to bash the Fanatec products or rely on a few forum members rants about someone's beef with the company. I really like the CSW and it seems like an excellent choice for me. Having said that, it also represents a significant amount of money and I want to be able to have many years of enjoyment from it. I don't need a wheel with enormous FFB strength but, I would like to have one with quality FFB where the critically important components have more than enough durability to last for years.

For anyone that would like to read about some of the technical issues regarding the motors, this thread is quite interesting. http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/fanatec-csw-csr-elite-modders-thread.274631/

There are also some discussions at the iRacing forum on the subject but, those seem to be less focused on finding solutions to motor issues. One problem is that many discussions on the issue don't usually include useful information about the age of the wheel so it might be hard to distinguish the early builds (known to have motor issues) from later ones. It may very well be that most of the motor-related complaints are with older units. If that is indeed the case, I will gladly buy the CSW but, that's yet to be determined.

 

[Kevin Watts]

If you Google the Thrustmaster T500RS you'll find just as many issues with things like cooling fans, motors, wheels becoming loose, connectivity etc. Unless you go with something really high end costing £1000's then you're buying a mass produced product and with any mass produced product you will get a certain amount of failures. Unfortunately for the prospective buyer if you search through forums you will always find bad experiences as those who have had bad experiences are far more likely to write about it than those who have had good experiences. In Fanatec's case they had a whole sim racing site and YouTube channel intent on running Fanatec down and promoting a rival product just because the owner of that site/YouTube fell out with Fanatec and with their coverage of iRacing that filtered into the iRacing forums as well. It's easy to plant a seed of doubt.

If I were in a position now to buy a new wheel I know what I'd buy. Both are priced as a premium product and when I look at the Fanatec wheel it's easier to see where the premium price comes from when you see the amount of premium materials used.