Seeking Advice for First Build of a Sim Racing Rig

[Emery]

I have not thought much about button boxes yet. Is this a must-have to begin, or something to be added later?

It somewhat depends on the wheel you choose. Some wheels come with a lot of buttons, enough to cover the important game features, and some wheels are pretty bare bones. The higher tech car you drive in the game, the more buttons you need (e.g. fuel map, adjustable boost, brake balance, adjustable traction control, adjustable ABS, etc.) beyond the common basics of pit limiter/wipers/lights/horn/network voting. Debatable buttons are seating & mirror adjustments.

 

[Ruttman98]

Carsten has more experience with tactile than me and I second his staged build path.

Another thing to consider if you need to move your rig is casters. I have a set of the Sim-Lab "Colson"-branded (someone indicated they may be knockoffs because they are relatively cheap) casters which are easy to mount using the T-slot but which might not stand up eo a heavy rig/driver combo. I wanted my seat to be higher so I put my rig on 6 inexpensive 3" in-line skate type casters from Harbor Freight which also attach using spare T-nuts.

If you go the tactile route later, there are various rig isolation options you might need to consider if vibrations which might annoy family members/neighbors.

 

[acnomad]

Along the same lines that the Heusinkveld Sprint pedals are sufficient to for my purpose (and that there is no need to spend the extra to get the Ultimate+), I'm starting to think I should trim down the wheelbase from the Simucube 2 Pro to something like the Moza R16. With my primary goal being to replicate the resistance I feel in the actual car (which has power steering, obviously), it seems 16Nm should be plenty. Am I overlooking something in this logic?

 

[stigs2cousin]

As I progressed from the T300 to the SC2 pro within a year I can´t comment on the Mozas.

Like Emery said it also depends on the wheel you want to drive. If you want something from a "real car" like an OMP or Sparco with realistic diameter like in your car these things have some heft and need a stronger wheelbase to deliver "lively" FFB.
If you want to scale down than I´d rather recommend the SC2 sport, most people say they wouldn´t find the difference in a blind test.

Just three minutes ago I took my hands from a dished OMP with 350mm diameter, this thing was "dead" on the T300 and came to live on the SC2.

Also mounting on the SC quick release was dead simple, just bolt on, PCD is 70mm like in the real world.
No idea how this is done in the Moza eco system.

You can get every type of racing wheel, I have the OMP and a smaller/lighter Fanatec r300 ( blanco, no buttons), a 310mm Sparco with paddles and two buttons and an Ascher formula wheel with loads of buttons and encoders.

For your needs as described above a blanco wheel and a small buttonbox on the rig for engine start, wipers asf would do nicely,.
You could even make do with a stream deck, though that is a little finicky with Asseto Corsa the original which is my favorite sim because of the driving feel and great modding content.
We´ve done several races at Sebring, man that track feels bumpy

it would be a start and in half a year you´d know what you really want.
maybe even in two month time you join a league?

 

[acnomad]

If you want something from a "real car" like an OMP or Sparco with realistic diameter like in your car these things have some heft and need a stronger wheelbase to deliver "lively" FFB.

Excellent point. I had not realized that the wheel mass varied so much.

As I progressed from the T300 to the SC2 pro within a year

Thanks for sharing your experience. If I'm going to end up with the SC2, I might as well just start with it. It's best to just cry once.

We´ve done several races at Sebring, man that track feels bumpy

And every March they go for 12 hours around and around on the bumps.

 

[Elaphe]

Invest if a strong and good wheel base. You will never have to change it in the future.

If your priority is replicating your road car, just buy a real steering wheel (original or replica if you want it cheaper). Since you are using a H shifter, you don't even need paddles, although you can add them later by purchasing a button plate with paddles (wired or wireless) or laser-cutting a plate in aluminium and installing the paddles yourself. That's what I did, wiring the paddles to a coiled cable and that to a game controller (you save a lot of weight on the steering wheel).

You can also keep your round steering wheel for using it with H shifting and then buy a sepparate GT3/F1 style wheel, which already include buttons and paddles (not very cheap though).

A sepparate button box is also a good idea, a quite unexpensive. I think that for VR it's easier to control a sepparate button box than buttons on the steering wheel. You can buy one or build it yourself. For that you can buy some buttons, a box for electronic components or 3D-printed box and a game controller pcb.

 

[acnomad]

Invest if a strong and good wheel base. You will never have to change it in the future.

If your priority is replicating your road car, just buy a real steering wheel (original or replica if you want it cheaper).

Yes, I’m back to the original plan for SC2. As you mentioned, I am keen to make the sim resemble my car IRL. Can you recommend a good source for a replica wheel? Also, do I need a solution for adjusting the height and tilt?

 

[Rebel_488]

Well,

to pull this tooth first (German expression foe "squashing hope")

no working man´s salary will make it feel even remotely like your car

Big but, you can train yourself to work with different sensations the same way you work with your car. (had this conversation about 3years ago with @blekenbleu and he was right about all of it.

Stiff profile rig check

Simucube2 xx check

Heusinkveld Ultimate+ are really nice, but are they 500€ nicer than the Sprints?
(I own them both Ultis are even smoother than Sprints, but I upgrade for higher brakeforce which you don´t need to simulate your car.)

H-Pattern: huge differences here
dump Fanatec for lack of reliability forgo the lower end stuff for lack of force and feel.
I own the VNM Shifter, ok for the 200€ it cost me.
It´s ok while driving in anger, a highend shifter with realistic feel will set you back a set of PS4S

For car feel absolutely triple screens, peripheral vision gave me my intuitive countersteering back when I graduated from single monitor.
VR is rumored to be even better but needs a kickass PC and constant tinkering

And for "tactile drivers" like a tactile system is like FFB for butt and feet.
I can drive by the feel of brake slip and wheel slide like in the real world.

For your info:

I started sim driving to get better on the Nordschleife in my GT86, then things changed a lot after Covid hit. A lot of my car budget went into the sim and now I do a lot of online racing, it even brought me in contact with data analysis

Nice man, do ya still have the gt86? I just bought one irl and loving it!!!

 

[Elaphe]

Yes, I’m back to the original plan for SC2. As you mentioned, I am keen to make the sim resemble my car IRL. Can you recommend a good source for a replica wheel? Also, do I need a solution for adjusting the height and tilt?

There are several solutions for those adjustments. Some rigs come with front mounts that can be easily adjusted in a few minutes. There are others mounts like this one that are even easier and faster to manually tune (but quite expensive). RCHeliguy has installed it in his rig. However, if you are the only one using your rig, you can simply adjust it to your preference and leave it like that. As regard steering wheel replicas, there are many models on eBay, Aliexpress, etc. You can find them also here, for instance. It depends on the diameter you prefer, leather or suede, round or flat on the bottom, etc. My favourite is the Sparco R383 in leather (33 cm), which is the one I'm currently using. It's just perfect. Replicas are fine, but originals are always better finished.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Nice man, do ya still have the gt86? I just bought one irl and loving it!!!

Of course, I´ve stowed it under my bed

( or to be true, my bedroom is directly over its parking spot 9

it´s an Orange MK1 first year. I usually don´t "adopt early" but with thing I couldn´t wait.

Yes, I’m back to the original plan for SC2. As you mentioned, I am keen to make the sim resemble my car IRL. Can you recommend a good source for a replica wheel? Also, do I need a solution for adjusting the height and tilt?

Wheel:
the usual suspects, OMP, Sparco, etc, everything used in real track/race cars
Don´t try to adapt an OEM M3 wheel, these things are astonishingly heavy.
I´d try to find a wheel with the same diameter and the same girth.
Leather stands the trials of time way better than Alcantara.

And most high level rig can be adjusted for height and reach. Not something one would do for a driver swap in the race, but sufficient to dial in "your" seating position.

 

[acnomad]

Some rigs come with front mounts that can be easily adjusted in a few minutes.

Thanks. I see now from the online assembly instructions that this is the case.

Don´t try to adapt an OEM M3 wheel, these things are astonishingly heavy.

And, no doubt, expensive. Looks like most racing steering wheels are smaller in diameter than the OEM. I'll keep looking.

 

[acnomad]

Regarding the PC. I've done a few combinations on PCpartpicker.com but I am not really in the mood to spend time building another PC at the moment. It looks like I can get a prebuilt semi custom gaming PC with for a fair price. Would the following be sufficient?

CPU: i7-13700
GPU: GeForce 4080
RAM: 64GB DDR4
Storage: 1TB

I would prefer DDR5 and a larger SSD, but these options force me up to to the next level machine.

 

[stigs2cousin]

OMP America | Steering Wheels

www.ompamerica.com

I don´t know the diameter of the M3´s wheel, but my car has 350mm.
On the rig that feels rather large, I use a 350 for classics ( and Truck Sim )

A300mm feels right for my main "car" the MixerCup (MX5 ND Cup car)

The very nice Ascher Formula wheel and a Sparco 310 collect dust

About the PC I´m not very knowledgeable but from what I read hear the AMD X3d´s are on par with Intel with regard to performance and demand half the power.

 

[acnomad]

Among the rigs I'm considering, it appears that only Trak Racer is prepared to fulfill an order quickly. ASR and Sim Lab are quoting delivery in late January, which is beyond the timeframe that I expect to have free time to devote to assembly and setup. I do like the assembly hardware in the Sim Lab, and the vendor is extremely responsive. Decisions, decisions...

 

[Ruttman98]

Along the same lines that the Heusinkveld Sprint pedals are sufficient to for my purpose (and that there is no need to spend the extra to get the Ultimate+), I'm starting to think I should trim down the wheelbase from the Simucube 2 Pro to something like the Moza R16. With my primary goal being to replicate the resistance I feel in the actual car (which has power steering, obviously), it seems 16Nm should be plenty. Am I overlooking something in this logic?

Heuskinveld Sprints are my "forever" pedals which I bought last Christmas.by most accounts Ultimate Plus is a minor incremental upgrade over the Sprints. In my experience, Sprints are a 200% improvement from my Fanatec V2 ClubSports in terms of adjustability in both fore/aft/lateral mounting and firmness/travel. From a purely aesthetic view, I do wish there was a cheaper quality alternative to the HRS pedal plates which are high end and expensive to ship from Down Under.

I have not (yet) upgraded to a direct drive wheel, but have been shopping for months/years! You are getting good advice, and I hope my additional input below is useful.

If you are convinced* you need 20 Nm in a wheelbase and cost is a primary concern, the VRS Direct Force Pro ($799) warrants serious consideration. All you would need to add is a wheel shaft adapter ($50 from VRS with other options available from SRB and others), and--depending on which rig you select, the VRS mounting bracket ($50). The separate power supply and cables do detract somewhat, but no one offers 20 Nm AND a 3-year warranty in this price range.

*A couple of laps of Spa in an F1 car with a small Gomez Sim Industries formula wheel paited with the Simucube 2 Ultimate at my local Microcenter assures me that I will never need/want 32 Nm of FFB.

You mentioned the Moza M16--while I consider Moza a quality company from a reliablity standpoint, and the price point, ecosystem, and robust quick release (QR) are very appealing, their encoder** is considerably less sensitive than Simagic, Asetek, or Simucube. At $799 USD, the Moza M16 wheelbase has some serious competition in the 12-16 Nm DD space from both the Asetek La Prima ($499 TK edition at Microcenter) and the 15 Nm Simagic Alpha ($769). The M16 uses an 18 bit encoder (same as the Simagic Alpha) vs 22 bits in Asetek. The M16 mounting is a bit fiddly and the aerodynamic styling is love it or hate it.

While Simagic uses the same positive engagement QR as Moza, their wheels appear pricier and I am concerned their software updates might be discontinued as it was on their initial M10 wheelbase recently.

The Asetek La Prima DD wheelbase gets my current "poll" vote as we head into U.S. election primary season. For around USD $500 you would have a European-made 12 Nm wheelbase with a 22 bit encoder which is upgradable to Forte specs (18 Nm) with a factory PCB swap. To this you would need to add the $150 Asetek QR kit*** (which also includes 3 lengths of machined aluminum wheel extensions) to mount a steering wheel of your choice. This said, the Asetek wheels are not to my taste--too much dull orange (green if you go with a Tony Kanaan version),

The La Prima button box ($279) would give you steering wheel mounted conttols in combination with an Asetek wheel design of your choice:

La Prima™ Button Box | Asetek Simsports US

Ready to take your gaming to the next level? La Prima™ Button Box Our delivers unparalleled performance and precision, providing the ultimate gaming experience for players of all skill levels. | Asetek SimSports

www.asetek.com

A versatile 330 mm round leather rim is $119:

Round Black Leather Rim | Asetek Simsports US

Ready to take your gaming to the next level? Round Black Leather Rim Our delivers unparalleled performance and precision, providing the ultimate gaming experience for players of all skill levels. | Asetek SimSports

www.asetek.com

I have no dog in this hunt and include the La Prima button box not as an endorsement but because it is important to have a means of changing in-game settings. While an Elgato Stream Deck could be configured for a variety of controls, you just can't beat the positive clicks of toggle and rotary switches for real racecar immersion. I have a minimalist Derek Speares Designs (DSD) button box with toggles, push buttons, and rotaries, as well as an Ascher Racing button plate with positive click buttons and rotaries plus excellent magnetic paddles with two different paddle sizes. Some may consider a coiled USB cable connection to be a hindrance/damage liability, but it replicates many racecar setups and you don'tneed to worry about batteries. I can mount 70 PDC 305 mm Turn Racing open top or 320 mm MOMO Protipo round wheels directly, switch to a 300 mm OMP Trecento with a 6mm 3D printed spacer, or bolt on a vintage 350mm Racemark wheel using a 76 mm PCD to 70 mm PCD adapter.

ASCHER-RACING B24-SC

B24-SC SIMUCUBE WIRELESS WHEEL™ Kabellose Verbindung mit dem SC2 SC1 (SIMUCUBE 1): ZUSÄTZLICHER FUNKEMPFÄNGER WIRD BENÖTIGT! Geringe Latenzzeit Niedriger Energieverbrauch: 2-3 Jahre Batterielaufzeit bei hoher täglicher Nutzung Standard 14250 Lithiu

ascher-racing.com

Cube Controls makes comparable wheel plates with cordless and USB options and also back lighting. Turn Racing has a good but less expensive option, and other smaller vendors compete in the wheel button plate market.

Overall recommendation: buy quality once and play with confidence and no "would-shoulda-coulda" for years.

**While most people could not distinguish encoder resolution, the numbers make a compelling case:

***If you want to buy the just the Invicta QR, the inimitable adaptation solution finder Simon at Sim Racing Machines (SRM), may have stock for a little less but shipping from the UK may make it a toss up cost-wise:

Sim Racing Machines

 

[Ruttman98]

I am just now noticing you are in the Peninsula State. Unfortunately, Microcenter is not opening in MIA until later on 2024. Depending on the drive, MC has GA locations in Marietta and Duluth.

 

[acnomad]

I don’t necessarily need the FFB that the SC2 can deliver but want the accuracy and reliability. I’m striving to buy once, cry once for this build.

I may have some down time in Chicago next month to visit one of those MC locations. However, I’m probably going to pull the trigger on most of the necessary components soon to get everything delivered in time for mid January assembly.

 

[Ruttman98]

Regarding the PC. I've done a few combinations on PCpartpicker.com but I am not really in the mood to spend time building another PC at the moment. It looks like I can get a prebuilt semi custom gaming PC with for a fair price. Would the following be sufficient?

CPU: i7-13700
GPU: GeForce 4080
RAM: 64GB DDR4
Storage: 1TB

I would prefer DDR5 and a larger SSD, but these options force me up to to the next level machine.

I think you mentioned you want to run triple 32-in monitors which will allow you to run them further away from your wheel for proper POV. Choose carefully for the right aspect ratio to maximize vertical pixels, for the latest DP port specs, and for the sync capabilities to match your GPU.

Considering your use scenario and spec'ing a new PC now on a budget, I would not hesitate to pick the AMD 7800X3D over the Intel i7-13700, but I would still go with Nvidia over AMD for a GPU. I would select a PC case which could fit a monster 4090 but--with GPU advancement in a holdong pattern--strongly consider choosing a GPU less pricey than your indicated 4080 that can still run 1440p triples (perhaps at reduced resolution) and plan to upgrade later.

My tried and true GTX 1080ti renders Assetto Corsa on flat 27-in 1440p 165hz triples very well for my needs (hot lapping and racing against AI) although it would be taxed with high graphics setting and a large grid.

 

[acnomad]

Choose carefully for the right aspect ratio to maximize vertical pixels, for the latest DP port specs, and for the sync capabilities to match your GPU.

Please say more on this topic. I definitely could use more guidance regarding monitors.

I’m afraid I didn’t follow your advice regarding going for the AMD CPU por a more economical GPU to start. There was a great sale price on a prebuilt MSI machine with i7-13700 and a 4080. Having just finished troubleshooting a hardware issue on my son’s gaming PC build, I was strongly in need of the “Easy Button.”

 

[stigs2cousin]

I personally use 27" 1080p tripples that are ok for racing.
But sometimes I dream of 1440p because at my driving distance I can see the single pixel if
"I really want to"

32" 1440p should be ok there, any bigger and you get problems with wheel base and center screen interfering.

Oh, and take a separate monitor stand. You don´t want your monitors rattling from FFB (and Tactile in step2)