Signed up

[Von Butters]

I have decided to go with another 3 months of iRacing, and this time, I want to get it right.
Anybody want to hold my hand and guide me through it, as I got it all wrong last time and didn't enjoy it at!

Cheers

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Whats the fun of racing like that if you start from the pitlane? Its really not needed. Went from Rookie to A in one weekend when I had a sub (with quick promotion).

Just race like you always do and you'll be fine and you have a lot more fun.

 

[William Levesque]

Indeed. Also, by starting from pitlane you'll never learn to actually race at the start of a race. You'll be trouble later on.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Who said I wasn't having fun?
I had more fun starting from the pitlane and actually finishing races than I had being rammed in the back totalling my car in the first corner.

Edit: In Rookie class that is, when I got out of Rookie I start from the grid instead.

 

[Kristóf Kerekes]

Well, I know that when I was Rookie, I just hopped on the grid without a single problem. Didn't take more than a day to get out of that Class. Driving like that and ignoring the mechanics of actual racing will bite back later, and I don't like making useless presumtions, but those are guys, who would make the T1 mess happen, if put on the grid. I just suggest practicing the proper way of racing instead of alternatives for jumping Classes. Higher class doesn't usually mean higher skill, especially when gaining it like that. If you can't get out of your class with geniune racing, that means you belong there. Simple as that.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

So you don't want to make assumptions but still you assume that because I got sick of being rammed off track taking massive hits to my Safety Rating by some guy who had just signed up for the "free demo of a racing game" that I will move on to be the hazard of class D to A because I didn't practice starting from the grid during my rookie license?
I should have kept on practicing being innocently involved in other peoples f-ups, is that what you're saying?
Yes you CAN get out of rookie the "proper" way, but it'll take you far longer and learn you very little unless you are one of the guys actually making these 1st corner pileups ever race.

 

[jabba2000ad]

Just think of rookie as racing school, rather than a series. They just want to see that you're smart enough to handle traffic and gauge if they're safe to race with. Basically, it teaches you to recognize the drivers you should let pass because they're going to spin off track in a few corners anyway

Agreed. Despite the frustration, it is there for a reason - you learn to spot accidents, divebombs etc. Loads of people complain about "the idiots in rookies" but if they went and jumped straight into, say, the GT3 series with 35+ cars, they would cause mayhem. You learn to avoid incidents and lap consistently. Today in the GT3 at Watkins top split, lots of cars divebomb, spin, crash, but the other drivers are better at avoiding it, and everyone can drive 20 laps consistently, so braking is predictable.

Rookies helps to teach this.

The Mazda + rookies experience helps you learn a lot. If you can't get out of it you probably are going to have a bad time in higher series.

 

[swervedriver]

Agreed. Despite the frustration, it is there for a reason - you learn to spot accidents, divebombs etc. Loads of people complain about "the idiots in rookies" but if they went and jumped straight into, say, the GT3 series with 35+ cars, they would cause mayhem. You learn to avoid incidents and lap consistently. Today in the GT3 at Watkins top split, lots of cars divebomb, spin, crash, but the other drivers are better at avoiding it, and everyone can drive 20 laps consistently, so braking is predictable.

Rookies helps to teach this.

The Mazda + rookies experience helps you learn a lot. If you can't get out of it you probably are going to have a bad time in higher series.

The wreckage in the GT3 series is incredible. At first I thought it was just Bathurst, but these last few weeks I've seen a full third of the field wipe itself out in nearly every race.

Edit: a third may be a bit optimistic. A more accurate number is probably something like 50%.

 

[jabba2000ad]

The wreckage in the GT3 series is incredible. At first I thought it was just Bathurst, but these last few weeks I've seen a full third of the field wipe itself out in nearly every race.

Edit: a third may be a bit optimistic. A more accurate number is probably something like 50%.

It's pretty out of control isn't it? Great racing, best I've had, but nuts. Totally nuts.

They should have added an oval into the schedule

 

[swervedriver]

Tell me about it. In the Skip Barber series, I was focused on getting podiums and wins. In GT3 races, all I'm thinking about is survival.

 

[Stereo]

I just signed up for this as well. Ended up mostly racing on the oval side so far because the Fixed setup MX5 Cup doesn't get along with me... if I just barely overdo a corner, I get an unrecoverable spin. I tried the SRF in test sessions and it felt a lot less liable to lose the back end in corners.

I suppose I could just do some clean laps 5 seconds off-pace in the MX5 and work my way up to a license that'll let me race in the SRF, it's just less appealing than going head to head with other drivers in the Street Stock.

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

Higher class doesn't usually mean higher skill, especially when gaining it like that. If you can't get out of your class with geniune racing, that means you belong there. Simple as that.

I do not agree on this one, since the SR system is all about avoiding contact or going off the line. However, unless you are way out in front or trailing hopelessly, having some contact and taking a little too much curb can actually be an integral part of racing in tin-tops, can actually make the difference between good racing and middle of the road racing.
racecraft as such is not adequately measured by the SR system, especially people with some online experience in other racing games should play the system to quickly get to the class where they feel most challenged and will invest most care to have some proper and clean fun. that said, the sr system is absolutely vital to have as many half-way clean games on public servers as iRacing has, compared to, for instance, race07 in its heyday where most public servers were mayhem.

 

[Kristóf Kerekes]

I do not agree on this one, since the SR system is all about avoiding contact or going off the line. However, unless you are way out in front or trailing hopelessly, having some contact and taking a little too much curb can actually be an integral part of racing in tin-tops, can actually make the difference between good racing and middle of the road racing.
racecraft as such is not adequately measured by the SR system, especially people with some online experience in other racing games should play the system to quickly get to the class where they feel most challenged and will invest most care to have some proper and clean fun. that said, the sr system is absolutely vital to have as many half-way clean games on public servers as iRacing has, compared to, for instance, race07 in its heyday where most public servers were mayhem.

I see that SR is measured in how clean you drive, and I totally agree that it might make racing less interesting in certain cases, but (I'm sorry to say) it is NOT a tool to determine how pussily you handle the car around the track. Being a racer, who is supposedly ought to advance through classes quickly, according to how experienced the driver is, he shouldn't have a problem staying inside the limits of the car and the simulator. After all, everyone has the same conditions as you, so why would you want to go 4 wheels off the track on a forbidden zone, when it's not allowed? Nobody is supposed to go onto that route, so are you? Everyone faces the same off-track rules as you, so it's not an excuse for "middle-track racing". I never found myself driving like I'm afraid of challenging others though turns or even divebombing at points. When I'm confident about going for a gap, it is because I'm definiately sure of my skills on keeping the car within the boundaries that the game provides. From then on it's only up to your experience of what you call racecraft, which is not different in any of the games. I was going for the same gaps in LFS, Race07, rFactor 1/2 like in iRacing and I'm keeping it clean without being a treat to my or my opponent's Safety Rating. According to that, I would not recommend iRacing to someone who is new to simracing, but it's supposed to be a professional product though. Nobody would like to pay subscription to something you can learn in other simulators without the treat of wasting your and others' money aswell. Learn racecraft and mechanics in less expensive, non SR based simulators, then move onto the "higher level" and race with your public rating on the line. In the rest of the sims, you can throw races even in leagues. Nobody is going to see that you went off-track or spun a few times in your race, as long as it doesn't have a permanent rating system. I had 8-ish years of simracing experience and about 4 years of competitive simracing when I felt that I can try my best at something that cost me more than a one-time investment, without feeling like it would go for a waste. I was right though, and quickly moved on without ever doing a facepalm or shaking my head in frustration about how unfair the Safety Rating system is.

My last cent about incidents:
There isn't a case in which you aren't responsible for an incident, given both of you have a certain IQ level. That of course excludes rage wrecking, laghits and intentional wrecking. That might consist of like 1% of the races though, you have all the 99% to prove that you are eligibled to advance into the next class by racing clean and providing your best pace within the boundaries of the game.

 

[Stereo]

However, unless you are way out in front or trailing hopelessly, having some contact and taking a little too much curb can actually be an integral part of racing in tin-tops, can actually make the difference between good racing and middle of the road racing.

I don't have a problem with the contact rules for the most part - light nudges are a 0x (no effect on SR), but you can easily grow that to a 2x if anyone involved spins or runs off track. So as long as the contact doesn't affect anyone's driving it's no points lost. I'm not sure what the threshold is where the contact itself is worth more than a 0x, maybe when a car takes damage?

I don't like the off-track as much - punishing your SR as well as the flagged slowdown seems excessive. That said, I'm not running right on the edge of any track yet, I don't know how common it is for the fastest line to be 'get as close as possible to the course boundary'. Only run into it when I've turned in early and obviously cut a corner.


One aspect that has bothered me is the way iRating bobbles up and down so much per race at the boundary between splits. I got +70ish irating for 2nd place in a 1234 SOF split, and then -86 for 17th place in a 1600 SOF split. I did drive better in the first race, but the iRating doesn't seem to care what the SOF is - first always gets +100ish regardless how they compare to the SOF, and last gets -90ish even if they were the weakest in the group to start with.

Really though moving from 3rd to 1st split in the rookie oval series produced a dramatic change in the attitudes of other drivers. In the 3rd split, people were spreading out, and being careful. In the 1st split people were driving closer than I'm ready for. I don't know if that's the specific drivers who happened to be behind me, or just the way the higher SOF races are. I can keep it on the right half of the track, but I can't deal with people wedging themselves into a gap that appeared because I'm only within a few feet of where I want to be, and for a few seconds I was high enough they could fit. Also saw a lot more of people pressing every opportunity - if the car in front of them slows down, never lift, just look for a line that'll get them through immediately. Whereas my attitude is that unless it's a dramatic slowdown, I'll keep back, since the slower cars are the ones who make mistakes.

 

[muscimol]

but the iRating doesn't seem to care what the SOF is - first always gets +100ish regardless how they compare to the SOF, and last gets -90ish even if they were the weakest in the group to start with.

It's not true. The SoF is taken into account when calculating the iRating change. It is quite sophisticated formula which hasn't been published though.

 

[Bakkster]

I do not agree on this one, since the SR system is all about avoiding contact or going off the line. However, unless you are way out in front or trailing hopelessly, having some contact and taking a little too much curb can actually be an integral part of racing in tin-tops, can actually make the difference between good racing and middle of the road racing.

I've never had an issue with SR preventing racing. I push track boundaries and make incidental contact all the time, still have a B license (don't race F1 so don't need it higher). In general, the people I trust to be racing that hard with can do the same.

The incident cap is what I have an issue with (though it's a philosophical issue more than a practical one).

One aspect that has bothered me is the way iRating bobbles up and down so much per race at the boundary between splits. I got +70ish irating for 2nd place in a 1234 SOF split, and then -86 for 17th place in a 1600 SOF split. I did drive better in the first race, but the iRating doesn't seem to care what the SOF is - first always gets +100ish regardless how they compare to the SOF, and last gets -90ish even if they were the weakest in the group to start with.

The boundary between splits is something of a necessary process. If the system never swapped the top drivers from the 2nd split and the bottom drivers from the top split, then it would never know which of the drivers were better than the others. It can be frustrating, but racing at various times when races split differently can help alleviate it.

As for iRating changes, they are dependent on the SoF. You're not seeing that, because you're in mid-range splits where the spread of iRatings isn't too large. When everyone's close to the same rating the variation isn't as apparent. But even as you say the last place driver loses -90-ish, the -ish is because the system is adjusting based on the driver's iRating

Here are two examples:
http://members.iracing.com/membersite/member/EventResult.do?&subsessionid=9700367
SOF 2314, winner has iR of 3936 and gains 51, fourth place has 3977and loses -4, fifth place has 2278 and gains 21

http://members.iracing.com/membersite/member/EventResult.do?&subsessionid=10376681
SOF 4157, winner 7062(+42), 8th 4987(-6), 9th 2927(+29)

 

[Stereo]

As for iRating changes, they are dependent on the SoF. You're not seeing that, because you're in mid-range splits where the spread of iRatings isn't too large. When everyone's close to the same rating the variation isn't as apparent. But even as you say the last place driver loses -90-ish, the -ish is because the system is adjusting based on the driver's iRating

Hmm, I guess I should just keep improving SR and let iRating do its thing then. The top to 2nd split was never more than 200 different in the rookie-only championship.

 

[yusupov]

ive got a question -- if you don't renew subscription, do you lose the account/whatever you bought? similarly, can you buy any car & track at any time? i am thinking about giving this a shot mostly to give a couple cars a try but if im just going to end up hating it its obviously not worth the cost of the cars+tracks+sub for 2 months.

as i am stuck w/ pad i am not looking to race competitively or much at all (maybe some rookie level type races), but the scanned tracks & how much effort they put into the cars does appeal to me.

 

[Von Butters]

ive got a question -- if you don't renew subscription, do you lose the account/whatever you bought? similarly, can you buy any car & track at any time? i am thinking about giving this a shot mostly to give a couple cars a try but if im just going to end up hating it its obviously not worth the cost of the cars+tracks+sub for 2 months.

as i am stuck w/ pad i am not looking to race competitively or much at all (maybe some rookie level type races), but the scanned tracks & how much effort they put into the cars does appeal to me.

I wondered that after I let my sub slide for a while, but when I rejoined, everything I had previously was still there!

 

[Bakkster]

Like Christopher said, everything you have will be available after you renew again.

 

[yusupov]

thanks a lot guys. i wish theyd make stuff like this more clear/offer a brief trial preview (though if its a difficult curve i suppose that might put people off so maybe thats their reasoning). ill have to give this a go.